Productivity

From Therapist To Coach ft. Katie Read

 July 6, 2022

By  Uriah Guilford, MFT

minute read

Marketing and business skills are not taught as part of therapy licensure. But therapists can become some of the most powerful business and life coaches.
Join me, Uriah Guilford, for this fascinating conversation with business coach guru, Katie Read, as we look at why therapists make such great business coaches.

In This Episode, You'll Learn:

  • Why might a therapist consider becoming a coach?
  • What are some of the internal and external challenges to becoming a coach?
  • How can you move successfully from therapist to coach?

Resources Mentioned In This Episode:

Therapists Dream Bigger
Focus Club

⬇️ Click for full episode transcript ⬇️

Uriah
Hey, Katie. Welcome to the show!

Katie
Thank you. I'm excited to be here.

Uriah
Yeah, it's always good to talk to you. We got to see each other in Utah not that long ago, which was I know, at the throne. Yes.

Katie
Yep. That was such a good summit, wasn't it? And such a beautiful place.

Uriah
It really was. I can genuinely say I got more out of that experience than I bargained for. Like, it was a really great experience on several levels. And I'm seriously thinking about Costa Rica next year.

Katie
Oh, I hope you do it. I'm going to be there.

Uriah
I know you are.

Katie
I'm so excited for it. I'm already like, okay, I have to come up with a totally different talk because it'll be a lot of the same people. So even though it's months away, I'm already stressing over what my talk will be.

Uriah
I wouldn't even worry about it. You could probably give the same talk and we'd be like, oh, yeah, I need to do that.

Katie
You'd be like, wait, I've heard this story once.

Uriah
Familiar... a wagon.

Katie
You're right. I'll just change it. I'll change it to a car train. It will be fine, right?

Uriah
So I have a fun question to ask you in a moment, but the first question I want to ask you. So I think most people in the therapy metaverse (I'm claiming that term!) have already heard about Katie Reid, but for those who haven't, could you tell them a little bit about yourself and the cool things you're up to?

Katie
Yes. Thank you for asking. So I'm a long time therapist, just like yourself and life through some changes at us, at my family, we ended up, like, unexpectedly getting transferred with my husband's job, moving states. I found myself a couple of years ago in a position where I was like, I'm in a new state. I don't have a license. It was going to be about a year long process with the new state to go through exams and all of that all over again, proving your whole life history to a brand new state. And during that time, I was like, I need to make money. This is an issue. I have no income. And I actually started writing copy for therapist websites, and I realized how much I loved doing that and actually helping therapists with their marketing and what evolved. For me, the reality is there's a ton of great people out there helping therapists with private practice marketing. And I found myself getting really interested by therapists who were trying to outgrow the therapy office. I was fascinated by the people that I saw who were putting on podcasts, writing books, doing, coaching, doing, consulting, creating and leading retreats. I was like, this is fascinating. And as somebody who loves the psychology of marketing and loves copywriting, that was the more fun stuff to help with and to write about. And so little by little, that evolved. And my business became helping those people, helping therapists who were really ready for that next step in their evolution to actually do that. Because, let's face it, I don't know about you. I didn't learn anything about marketing building an online business. I learned nothing about that in grad school. There's no room in our grad school curriculum to shove that in there. And so most of us come in not knowing anything. And I just happened to love doing it. So it was fun for me helping other people with that. And eventually, little by little over time, what emerged was that as I was seeing the coaching business or the coaching world, the coaching metaverse, if you will, uriah, just explode. I was like, God, therapist could be the most powerful coaches. And the only difference is that we don't know how to market ourselves. We've got the skills, we've got the ethical good standing. We know all the laws and rules and regs and we do this every single day, and we just don't know how to market ourselves in this way. And then there's the second part of that, which is the layperson has no way to distinguish if I come in as a 20 year therapist and become a coach versus if Joe Schmo wakes up this morning and goes, hey, I'm going to be a life coach. Now, the lay public has no way to know the difference since coaching is unregulated. So eventually that evolved for me into creating the Clinic Coach Certification. It's the first and only certification of its kind that is a coaching certification exclusively for mental health professionals. And it is also and hopefully my dog is not going to start barking, it is also a business incubator. So we actually give out the certification and help therapists launch successful coaching businesses as they're doing it. That's us.

Uriah
I have to tell you, I've been seeing a lot more of the Clinic Coach profile badges on.

Katie
Yeah.

Uriah
And whenever I'm like, Oh, fantastic, I smile, I think of you. The word is spreading. The Clinic coaches are taking over the meditation.

Katie
Yes. That's what I hope. They'll be there. They're awesome.

Uriah
Fantastic. It's just amazing to me how much has changed in the last 15 years. I graduated from grad school in 2003, and honestly, yes, of course, zero talk or even mention of what to do with a career in psychology.

Katie
Right.

Uriah
And I think since I graduated 2003, I didn't consider private practice. Nobody even asked me about it until 2006 when my clinical supervisor said, what are you going to do when you get licensed? I was like, I have no idea. What about private practice? And then I started thinking about it, but that's a huge delay from education to career to next level career. Right? Yeah. That's so fun. I love what you're doing. I was going to ask you the fun question now, but I'm going to wait until the end. Okay, we'll keep this rolling. So there are a lot of changes happening in the world of mental health in the metaverse as they say. Sorry, I couldn't help myself. I'm wondering broadly what changes you're paying attention to and then we can talk about the therapists who are pivoting to coaching and even retiring.

Katie
Yeah, so that's interesting. It's funny. How do I say this? In the mental health world I really feel like we are seeing the good for clients sometimes coupled with the bad for providers. So for example, the rise of texting therapy, mega, mega, mega corporations. I actually think from a client point of view, this is amazing. And I understand why these people got tons and tons of venture capital funding to launch these massive, massive corporations to do this because it's amazing to think that now we could make mental health services available to a younger generation. To people who are not going to go sit in an office, who are not going to talk on the phone. But texting is just the soup that they have grown up in. That this is how they communicate, this is what they know. I think that's amazing at the same time as we see because any corporation like that has to be motivated by profit. It's their only way to stay in business. And so that comes at the expense of overworking and underpaying therapists which has been a theme unfortunately in our field since the beginning and it's a very hard one to overcome.

Katie
We are the lowest paid of the highly educated professions and that hurts to see. It is right and it hurts to see all of our contemporaries and people going through that. And at the same time I feel like what happens very often is people get trapped in a certain way of working. They feel guilt about not working that way. We all get into this field because we want to be helpers. We have that personality and with that is usually coupled with guilt. Guilt in charging anything for our services, guilt in having a sick day, guilt in taking a day off, guilt in not being able to take every single client that comes in the door. We go through all of that and because of that unfortunately, it leads, as we've all seen, to high levels of burnout. To people who are like I absolutely love this work but I can't keep doing it forever. Or to people who realize, I know when I got into it I had this dream that being a therapist was just going to be like the most wonderfully flexible job in the world. That I could just do a private practice and set my hours and be with my kids and it would be so flexible. And then you get into it and you realize you're like, oh really? I'm going to need to work evenings and weekends, especially when I get started because that's when people are here or if I work with kids or if I work with couples or any of those types of obstacles, you can't quite have that perfect little, I'll just work during the school day while my own kids are at school type of schedule all the time. And you realize that you can't move states, and you realize that every time you're sick or you have a vacation, you're losing money, and you're possibly even losing clients altogether because you try to leave for a week or two. And they're like, I survived without therapy. I guess I'll stop therapy now. It's always that up and down. They really are. They really are. And so all of those things I see as challenges. And it's interesting because you said the word retiring, which of course, we all think is 20 years away, but I know more and more people who now consider themselves retired as therapist because they've stepped into that next evolution, whatever that looked like for them. I'm actually curious for you. Do you still see clients, or do you consider yourself retired? Now, I know you have a group practice. Tell us your story. Let's turn the tables here.

Uriah
That's funny. Not too long ago, my daughter said, dad, we've always told people that you're a therapist. My dad's a therapist. Now what do we say? Because I'm retired, I no longer see clients since December of 2020. So it's a good span of time. So I was trying to help them come up with some other word. I don't care for the word entrepreneur because it's just, like, hard to spell too much. It's a mouthful.

Katie
It is.

Uriah
I think we came up with something. I don't remember what it was, but yeah, I stopped seeing clients almost two years ago, going on two years and a half, and for a number of reasons. And I think every therapist that quote unquote, retires has a different story, slightly different, but one of the posts that's coming up that I'm going to write is called The Confessions of a Retired Therapist. So hopefully that will live up to the title, the enticing title.

Katie
Yes.

Uriah
Yes. And so I guess there's a number of reasons. For me, I just felt like my skills and abilities were more useful in growing my group practice and in growing productive therapist. And I just did it for 20 years, seeing basically the same population, and I grew out of it, honestly.

Katie
Right.

Uriah
And then I kind of wanted to transition from working with teens and families to working with adult men, men in their thirty s and forty s. And so I was kind of making that transition, but then I realized, you know what? I'm way more excited about other things. And now I do business coaching, which I do love even more. Every once in a while, I miss therapy, and I'll get a phone call from a previous client that I really loved working with, and I'm just, like, so torn. But I stuck to my no.

Katie
Katie, let me ask you this just out of curiosity, because I love how you expressed it, that you were like, I outgrew this. I grew out of this. And I realized that now I'm more excited about this. And I feel like I see a lot of therapists who don't internally allow themselves right to voice it that way, because if they start saying for a minute, oh, boy, I've been doing this for 20 years, I'm getting bored, or I've outgrown this, they immediately feel tremendous guilt. Did you go through that at all, or was it just a pretty natural evolution for you?

Uriah
I think I had a mini identity crisis because nobody goes through six to eight years of grad school and then 3000 hours or whatever you have to do with the Gauntlet and then all the titles that you just mentioned a minute ago and doesn't use their identity with their career and with their title and then some guilt around. I think I was actually one of the best team therapists in this area. There's not very many, so it's not like I was super good. And some of my favorite referral sources would say they were bummed that I was no longer available. So there was a little bit of that. And so I did struggle with that for a little bit, and then I got through it and have been happy as a clam. My mom asked me not too long ago. She said, do you ever miss being a therapist and doing therapy?

Katie
Isn't that funny? I don't, actually. There's parts of the client work that I really miss. Like, there's parts of just that sitting with somebody and the depth of it that there's no other profession that is anything like what we do. There's just truly not. Yeah, I don't miss the challenges of it. I don't miss the business aspects of it. I don't miss those things. But there are that little pang, like you said. You think of those old favorite clients and you're like, those sessions were so powerful, and I loved it. Yeah, I do miss some of that.

Uriah
So to tag onto that question, I'm curious, what do you think? I talked about some of my motivations, but what are you seeing and the motivations that are driving therapists to expand beyond maybe add onto counseling work or pivoting fully to coaching or something else? What's driving them?

Katie
So what we see and I can only speak really from our clientele and our base of clients, but what we find and this is especially among the clients that come to us, who are the most successful, it honestly tends to be people who are experiencing exactly what you described, where they have realized, I am at my next step. I am ready for something more. I have done this for a while. I love it. We don't really get people coming in and going, oh, I hate therapy. I'm just so done with it. I've never heard that. We get people who are like, I love this, and I could do more. I can be out there doing more. A couple unifying factors. We see people who feel like their creativity is a little bit stifled being a therapist. It is a very private, quiet profession, and you might be a little creative in maybe interventions you're using with the client, but some of who you really are, your real personality, is always going to be on the back burner in that therapy room much of the time, because it's not about you, it's about that client. And so we have had people I remember one woman who she had her first coaching session or first couple of coaching sessions, and she said, Oh, my gosh. It wasn't until I did this that I realized how stifled I felt and how in the creative closet I felt as a therapist. And now, doing coaching, I feel like I'm stepping out of that and that I can bring my real self into the room, and I can bring my personal story into the room, and I can bring these authentic pieces that light me up into the room as a coach. Now, part of that is, of course, a lot of people moving into coaching, they might choose a niche that's really connected to their personal story. And so they have a lot to offer because they've been through this experience, and they're not feeling that kind of Freudian therapy. Like, I'll just be silent and let the client have their experience. They're not feeling the need to do any of that. They're feeling like they can just bring their full selves into the room. We have people who even, interestingly enough, are getting close to normal retirement age as a therapist. And they're like, I'm tired. I don't need to sit with heavy duty depression and anxiety anymore. But I'm certainly not done, and I have a lot more to give, and I want to give a lot more. And they will come in and start wanting to build coaching programs or build other things that can, over time, create that passive income into retirement, but also can still light them up and can still get them excited. And I think occasionally we do get people who are like, I am especially postcoded, everybody's waiting list exploded. People were carrying so much heavy stuff while going through so much heavy stuff in their own lives at the same time. And so certainly that increase in burnout is there. But I think also seeing people like you, people like me, people like our mutual friends, seeing us out there doing these things, there's such an element of I always say to people, I'm like the most non techie, non interesting, like, middle aged, suburban mom you're ever going to be like, but it's like, if I can figure this out, anybody can figure this out. There is nothing special we were not hit with some sort of special stick. We were just like, you know what I want, I'm ready to learn something new, and we stuck with it. And then you get to sit back and look at that once you built it. So that's a lot of what we see.

Uriah
That's so interesting. Yeah. 20 years ago, what were the alternative options for a therapist in their career, mid career? What could they do? I guess you could always read a book, you could create a model of therapy. Right?

Katie
Yeah. Not too many of those tiny little tags.

Uriah
There weren't that many options. I think it's just astounding to me what people can do. I love your first point about expressing the creativity, because I always felt like and I like to use technology and I love marketing, and I'm a very creative person. I consider myself sort of an artist. I'm a drummer, and I just love at some point, my eleven year old self wanted to be a cartoonist. So in my forty s or maybe 50s, I'm going to start a cartoon strip. So that's great. I've got all this creativity, and I do feel like over the course of my therapy career, I definitely had to mute that. And there were also a lot of restrictions and rules, understandably, around HIPAA and whatnot, that limited me from doing certain things. So I love not having to do.

Katie
Those things anymore well, and that's spot on. And it's interesting you say that. Definitely some of the clinic coaches that come in, they are people who are a bit more woo, a bit more spiritual, and they feel like they really have to squash that part of themselves to be a therapist in the official therapist way, but also my super creatives who come in and they're like, yeah, I could go do art therapy, but really that's not exactly what I want to do. I mean, I have a woman, I think it's such a cool idea. She works with women in sobriety and basically helps them bring creativity back into their lives by doing workshops, by doing painting, by doing like the hands on artistic stuff. And that's a harder thing to do when you're a therapist. You know, it's hard to market it that way. And you don't necessarily want people who are really at that clinical level of need. You want to be able to have this workshop with people who are functioning a little bit higher. It's not a clinical level of need, but your clients are at that place where they're ready to really advance their lives too. And you get to be there and be like the Sherpa for it as a coach.

Uriah
That's fun. So many good ideas about how to help people live healthy lives and have good relationships. Therapy is not the only solution, but it is one of the best ones. That is so cool. I love talking about all these ideas because it's just neat seeing what your folks coming through your program are doing and the specialties that they're choosing. And I think if I'm not mistaken, a lot of them are upon niches that are probably under served. Right. Like maybe not that many people have gone and said like this demographic and this demographic and this that's who I help. I think that's so cool. And then the marketing is marketing gets easier too, right?

Katie
Yeah. As you get really clear. It's so true.

Uriah
So what about a situation where you've got somewhat related to me but not totally? You've got a group practice owner who's been a therapist for a long time, has a group of associates working with them, and for them, they retire from providing therapy. They've got creative ideas that they want to do. Maybe there's no problem with that. Maybe there's not. Although to be honest, I don't know if any of my therapist listen to this podcast, but I thought, does my credibility go down when I stopped seeing clients? Do my therapist see me differently? I'll have to ask them. I don't know.

Katie
That's interesting.

Uriah
Maybe not, but maybe so. I don't know.

Katie
Or are you the goal is that the goal for them to get to the point where they can retire from doing that too? Who knows?

Uriah
Yeah. And that could be negative to my business model, but right. I'm definitely not telling them about you.

Katie
No. Delete that part!

Uriah
Yeah. So I guess I don't know what my question is in there. Have you seen group practice owners pivot to coaching but continue to maintain their group practice in any pitfalls there?

Katie
Yeah, the biggest thing we see, we tend to get group practice owners when they are burned out, they know they need to make a change. What typically happens and I don't know if this might have been your story too many years ago, possibly my people that I have who are group practice owners tend to be so successful that it is hard for them to refer the clients out even to the others in their practice because they're getting so many referrals who are saying, no, you have to go to Matthew, you have to go to Jamie, you have to go see that person. And so I get group practice owners in who are literally at 35 to 40 therapy clients a week. And so one of the first things that we have to always encourage them to do is really call that client list who can go down to every other week, who could do a pause and practice, you know, maybe pausing sessions for a month because they're getting close to graduating and they need to have a little practice time, who could be referred very safely and happily to one of the other clinicians in your practice where do you need to increase your fees or maybe drop your lowest performing insurance plan or something along those lines to free up that schedule. So I tend to get a lot of good practice owners who are like, I have a head full of ideas, more than I can contain and no time already their calendars exploding. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And I think we probably all go through that. Like, there are seasons of that for all of us, but for my group practice owners especially, that is the time when it really is about, okay, how do we bring you in your role as a leader to really, really, really get so clear on those boundaries, what you can and can't do, how many people you're willing to serve. And what I always teach people is your future dream, your future vision. You should be giving the best hours of your day to your future vision. And we don't tend to work typical nine to five. If you say that to somebody in a nine to five, they're going to be like, well, the best hours of my day or first thing in the morning, but I got to be at my desk, so what am I supposed to do? We don't have that. We don't have that restriction. So if the best hours of your day are, let's say eight to 10:00 A.m., you really can say, I'm going to block off eight to 10:00 A.m., and I'm going to use that time to create my future vision, to create the better life that I'm moving towards. And instead, what often happens and I'm guilty of this too, if you wake up, you check your phone and immediately you're in the emails and the details and this and you forgot that, and somebody's waiting on billing, like all these little things. And before we know it, our best hours of the day have been given to kind of the detritus of life, right? Like all the little crap has just taken over that really vital brain time. And so we always say, if you're going to grow a coaching business, for example, you need to figure out your best hours of the day, and you need to commit that those hours are blocked and guarded and they are only for this. And we turn off our notifications and we commit to that. And what's amazing is, and I see this in my own life when I actually do that, even though it is often really hard to turn off the notifications and I'm not available for the next hour, it is hard when you have a lot of people depending on you as group owners do. When I do it, I am so much more clear the rest of the day. I'm so much more calm in my thinking the rest of the day because I got that creative energy out, because I know that I'm putting in the time to build what I really want. Like, I know that I'm doing it. I kept my commitment to myself. And so if you can do that as a group practice owner, if you can figure out what are my best, freshest, most creative hours of the day, even if it's 1 hour a day, or even if it's like three times a week, it's all you've got. Can you guard it with your life? And can you dedicate that to your next level, to your extraordinary life instead of all the tasks of your ordinary life?

Uriah
That's fantastic. That's like a quotable social media out there.

Katie
Stick that up there! Yeah, for sure.

Uriah
That is so cool. I've always appreciated the advice to not focus on time management, but rather energy management, because there are some people that really thrive from, like, 10:00 P.m. To 02:00 A.m., and those are their best hours to write a book or do whatever the creative project is.

Katie
Right.

Uriah
And you said, if I got this correctly, that you should focus on giving your best hours, the best hours of the day, where your energy is at its highest and everything is clarity to your future dreams, something like that. Did I get that right?

Katie
Yes, absolutely. This was something that, after teaching for a while, and a lot of my people struggled with time, with just being busy. A lot of us are in that sandwich generation. We've got kids, we've got aging parents, and we're all working and we've got jobs and life is busy. And that's when I realized, like, Oh, you know what? If I can do this for myself, and I'm starting to do this naturally and instinctively for myself, I need to teach this to all of my clients. And it really is when people hear it for the first time, it is that AHA moment, and it can make a huge difference. And the whole question becomes, okay, if you're out there listening and you had the AHA moment, what action do you commit to take right now? Can you block off that time tomorrow on your calendar? Can you block it off on Saturday morning on your calendar? You know, what is it going to be where you know what your dream life is? And if you don't get it done, I'm not going to sit here and be like, it's just easy. And from now on, every day from eight to ten, you need to do this. I mean, I have had a book that I've been working on forever, and I'm constantly wanting to put writing into that early time slot. And inevitably, as a business owner, you know how it is. There's a million other things that are like, on fire. On fire. Help now. Help. So I certainly am not successful at this every day, but when I am, like I said, my days go much better.

Uriah
It's not easy, but it's simple. Right?

Katie
That's exactly right.

Uriah
That's the trick. And the most important things are often pretty simple. And you know what you need to do.

Katie
Yes. It's just a matter of it's not rocket science. Right, exactly.

Uriah
And you know what? The outcome of everything that you just talked about is that if you do that consistently enough or even inconsistently, you will make progress, you will get things done, and you won't be sitting there in two years or five years going, I wish I had written that book.

Katie
Yes.

Uriah
Why didn't I write the book? I just never made it happen. I didn't have the time. Not true. You didn't make the time.

Katie
Yeah, great.

Uriah
There are some of the things I love to talk about with the folks in Focus Club because it's all about accountability and support to reach your big dreams and goals. Because it's so easy, like you said, just to get caught up in everything. And the more you've got more plates you got spinning, the more kids you got, the more businesses you have, honestly.

Katie
Right.

Uriah
Take over your life and eat your calendar.

Katie
Well, and it's an interesting thing, too, that I have been writing a lot about this lately, is that often the things that we have have you ever read The War of Art by Stephen Fretzfield?

Uriah
Yes.

Katie
Such a good book. Everyone needs to read it. And he talks all about resistance as this universal force that we all experience. And resistance is the thing that keeps you from sitting down to write the book, the thing that keeps you from writing a song if you're a musician or just doing the thing that your soul, your creativity, wants to go do. And this sort of universal force jumps into all of our brains, and it stops us from doing it. And I have been just in my own thinking and writing lately, writing about this and writing about how often the things that I have the most resistance to are because I have a strong emotional connection to whether or not I'm going to succeed. And because of that, I have more resistance because I have more fear of failure. And so I don't take action because then I don't have to face the fear of failure. But other areas of my life where I don't necessarily have such a strong emotional connection to, like, but will I succeed? Will I do it? Will I do it? Those areas I'm able to take something that I want to have become a daily habit and just make it a daily habit without a lot of resistance. And so it's interesting, I was, like, just journaling the other day about how, okay, so the trick is to take the things where you've got this emotional attachment to the outcome and figure out, how can I make this as mundane a daily habit as brushing your teeth or taking a shower? How can you make it such a mundane daily habit? Because then, just like you said, when you do that, the progress happens. You don't have to babysit the progress anymore. It just happens over time.

Uriah
So I would imagine that also means if you've got something that you're facing resistance over that might be the thing that you should do, maybe right.

Katie
You should read the book. You should definitely read the book.

Uriah
I'm going to reread that book because.

Katie
The other one, I'm rereading it lately. Yeah.

Uriah
Pressing in, no.

Katie
The War of Art and then yeah. What was the second title? It was a really good one, too, but the first one was the one that I just loved. Turning Pro. Turning Pro, I think that was the second one. Yes.

Uriah
I don't know why Pressing In is not the title. That is the kind of book that you can read frequently because the struggle doesn't go away. If you and I were we've been very successful in the things that we've done, that's fantastic. But if you and I were to start over and do something different, we would face the same things. And interestingly enough, I love the book, the Big Leap by Gay Hendrix. He talks about hitting those upper limit barriers. And it's so fascinating to me that no matter what levels of success you are at or what's in your bank account, doesn't even matter, you will hit those barriers where you don't think you deserve more or to be successful or to whatever the thing is, have more love and belonging. So interesting.

Katie
That's a great work.

Uriah
Important. So one of the final questions I want to ask you is this what do all ridiculously successful therapists have in common?

Katie
That's interesting. The first thought that pops to my mind is grit. Honestly, it's a tough career. We spend years and I spent like one hundred K to get licensed and go through internships and all of that. So we spend years of our lives, a tremendous amount of money. We spend hours upon hours upon hours studying, worrying about clients. All of those early days in agency work, like a lot of us probably did, where I would literally go home at night and like one of my clients would have a new diagnosis and I would be with my books trying to read and understand this diagnosis. And we spend so much of our life force trying to be good at this. Then we get out there, we've got to figure out how do you run a business? How do you get furniture for an office? Like, how do you get all the millions of little forms and numbers and all the things to be legally compliant? How do you do all this? And then you have to keep doing it. You have to keep showing up. You have to be someone who your clients refer other clients to you so that you have a sustaining business. All of those things take a tremendous amount of grit. And so that's just the first word that comes to my mind. There's a lot of other wonderful qualities you can have. Empathy, intuition, all of the great things that help us really connect and do very deep work, and you also just need the grit to even be able to get to that.

Uriah
You can't succeed without it. And if you achieved a lecture or even you're almost there, you are already a gritty therapist.

Katie
Absolutely. Oh, gosh. When you think those are some of the hardest years of your life that you are working through, that you're being paid pennies, if anything at all. Absolutely.

Uriah
And that quality translates with translates for therapists that want to move into coaching, too, because you need that.

Katie
You do, right?

Uriah
Yeah.

Katie
It's a whole new skill set. Absolutely.

Uriah
Well, I know there are some people listening to this that are like, okay, so what do I do next? How do I work with Katie? How do I become a coach? How do I become a clinic coach? Where would you send them?

Katie
Go to therapistdreambigger.com, and you just enter your name and email there, and that takes you to a page where all the information about our program is available. There's a couple of videos on that page. You can set up a call with us to get your questions answered. All that jazz, it's all just laid out right there for you. Our program is really cool. We've expanded it recently. So we now, besides having our whole big program and our whole group and our daily support in the group, we have hired several guest experts in their personal areas of expertise. So we have guest experts. We have a social media expert. We have a professional copywriter. We have a funnels, and marketing and tech experts. We have mindset experts. We have actually unlimited one on one coaching now for all of the people in our program, which is amazing to me to be able to offer that. So for the whole time people are in the program, they can have unlimited calls with all of these various guest experts now that are on our team. So it's pretty exciting. And that way we know that we can help people launch as successfully as humanly possible, which is our whole goal.

Uriah
That's so cool. I love how committed you are to helping these people be successful helping these therapists be successful and become clinic coaches. It's fantastic. So therapistrenebayer.com one of the best domains ever purchased. Love that. So good.

Katie
I was like, oh, it's available. Cool. It's like, $8. I'll take it.

Uriah
That's a win. That's great. I should have got that and then held onto it. So great. Thanks so much, Katie. It's always a pleasure to talk to you, and I appreciate you taking the time.

Katie
Yes. Great to see you.

Uriah
All right, you too. Take care.

Katie
Bye bye.

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Uriah Guilford, MFT


Uriah is a group practice owner and the creator of Productive Therapist. He is a technology nerd, a minimalist travel packer, a rock drummer and business development enthusiast.

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