How To Get More Private Pay Clients With Mentaya

Uriah
Hello, Christine. Welcome to the podcast.

Christine
Thank you. Thanks so much for having me.

Uriah
Absolutely. I'm really excited about this conversation for a number of reasons, and one is that I'm going to let you be my business coach today. Is that okay?

Christine
Sure. Happy to do that.

Uriah
Because our topic is how to get more private pay clients by leveraging Menta. And I am so interested in this always for my practice because we're 85% to 90% private pay. We're always thinking about and strategizing about how to get more private pay clients. And I know a lot of the listeners to this podcast are looking for the same thing, and I think you've got an amazing solution that can really help with that. So, yes, we get to talk about that.

Christine
Yeah, I'm excited.

Uriah
Yeah. So I would love to hear and for the audience to hear a little bit about your story and about founding Menta and what's the story behind.

Christine
I have I've been interested in mental health for a long time. I would say since over since high school, probably. So unfortunately, I went to high school with a lot of mental health issues and saw how much of an impact it can have on people's lives and academically and career wise. I went to college to I ended up going into tech. I studied computer science, and I was always sort of a math nerd, like math and science nerd. But in college, we had something at Princeton called a senior thesis that we had to do in order to graduate. And I actually did mine on know machine learning to try to improve mental health patient outcomes and help support therapists in private practice. So this was years ago. The first time I kind of looked into the space, I was really interested, I think, just naturally always gravitated towards this area and just felt like it was such an important thing to be able to help and support people's well being and also make mental health care more accessible because it isn't to most people. And so it really started a while ago. I ended up after college going into tech. I became a product manager at Google, stayed there for several years, had a really good time, worked with some awesome people. But ultimately I felt like I had had enough experience there where I was like, I want to actually just do something that is really meaningful to me. And so during COVID I started thinking about what do I want to do next? I really wanted to figure out a way to make an impact in the mental health space, whether that was becoming a therapist myself, I'd consider that, and I still want to at some point later to figuring out, like, can I leverage what I've learned at Google and computer science and sort of the skills that I've built up throughout the years to make a difference in this space and make high quality mental health care more accessible, but not at the expense of therapists. Because I know there's a lot of mental health companies that are like, everyone wants mental health care to be more accessible. I just wanted to do in a way that was sustainable and empowered therapists at the same time, instead of being like, we'll make therapy cheaper by paying therapists less. Like, that was not something that I wanted to do. So that's sort of a little bit about how I started Mentaya.

Uriah
That's fantastic. And I like the connection between what you experienced in high school and then how that motivated you to pursue your career over time. And I don't know if there's a lot of people that struggle in high school, though obviously there are a lot of people that struggle with mental health in high school. I was one of them as well. And part of that experience led me to becoming a therapist. But I think that's really amazing when people use their personal challenges or personal interests and combine those two to solve a problem. And I would think those companies do well because they really have a good foundation of story, right?

Christine
Yeah, I think a lot about that sometimes. I think, unfortunately, when I was in high school, it was during a period in which mental health was still stigmatized. No one really talked about it. We had a lot of mental health issues at my school and there was never an open discussion on it about what was actually going on. I don't think people really even understood the concept of depression. It was like, oh, are people just too stressed about school? There was a lot of lack of understanding and I think education at the time that I think left a big impression on me.

Uriah
I'm really glad that that's changing. It's taken some time, but there's a clear cultural shift towards positive mental health and taking care of and paying attention to that all the way from corporations like Microsoft and Google and Apple all the way down to high schools and middle schools and elementary schools. It's really needed never more than now. It's so interesting that you were studying and talking about machine learning connected to mental health. I won't ask you to say what year that was, but that's pretty interesting. I'm guessing that was at least a few years ago, right?

Christine
Yes. I would have done my entire thesis on mental health if I could, but I studied computer science, so I had to find a way to tie it to mental health. And so it was really around using machine learning to find patterns in people's emotions and try to improve patient outcomes in mental health care. And that was something that end up it was just a project. It didn't turn into any sort of business or anything that people used broadly. But it was really cool to feel like I was working on something that was making a real impact on people's lives and doing something that was also supporting therapists, because I think these are people who are dedicated to spending their lives helping other people. And I think it's crazy that in our current healthcare insurance system, I think people are not being rewarded nearly as much as they should be for, I think, this really noble effort of dedicating our life to helping others. And so that's something that I wanted to change with mentally.

Uriah
I couldn't agree with that more. I'm curious how you kind of came up with the idea of what Mentaya does and then tell me a little bit about yeah, and then you can explain kind of what the main service is. The main product?

Christine
Yeah. And so when I was originally really interested, I was like, I wanted to do something in the mental health space. I wanted to do something that had a positive impact on people's lives. And I also wanted to do something because it is healthcare, where incentives are aligned, where it was helpful for the patient or the client and the therapist or the provider. And that's something that's actually not super common in healthcare. Like, usually you help one side, but then it hurts the other side. And so that was really important to me. And I've heard of there are other companies helping therapists take insurance, and I think that's great for people who are able to make a sustainable living off of insurance. But there's a reason why most therapists don't take insurance and don't want to deal with insurance. And so I think it was around COVID a lot of my friends have started going to therapy for the first time. I live in San Francisco. Very few therapists in this area take insurance, and so people are paying $200 to $50 a session for therapy. And it was kind of like, I just can't find a therapist in network. It's really expensive. And I was like, Is that it? Like, you either find someone in network or you have to pay $250 or whatever it is a session. And that's sort of when I dug deeper into it, talked to some friends, talked to some therapists, and found out about out of network benefits. And I was like, Why does no one talk about this? No one knows about this. This is not a thing that is widely known. Of course, I know a lot of therapists give super bills. They generally know the gist of it. But I don't know if there's like, a lack of communication or understanding or just it's kind of a complicated concept in general, where if you just go around asking people like, do you know what out of network benefits is? People are like, I have no idea what that is or how to use it. And I was like, this is a really cool opportunity to try to just take this really complex system and distill it down and make it really easy for people to, first of all understand if they have these benefits that they can use to partially cover the cost of therapy, even if their therapist does not take insurance. And not just understand, but actually use it to get real money back from insurance companies. And this sort of I was like, this is so cool. It creates this win win between both. Like, as a client, you're saving a ton of money per year or getting access to therapy that you otherwise might not be able to afford. And as a therapist, we're empowering you to stay private, pay and charge your full rate, whatever you deserve, and yet still help your clients actually get money back. And so they're probably going to reinvest that money back into therapy. And so it's like helping therapists grow their business by making mental health care more accessible for clients, which is super exciting to me.

Uriah
Yeah, the win win is always the best, isn't it? I think, yeah, it really is. So that's obviously one of the challenges that you're highlighting for the clients who have insurance but don't understand how it works because it is very complex. And I would guess that the insurance company doesn't want to explain out of network benefits because then they have to pay them, right?

Christine
Exactly.

Uriah
I don't know what the dynamic is there, but that's my guess.

Christine
Yeah. So insurance companies, of course, they do have this long document. I don't know if you've ever looked at your insurance benefits where it's like your deductible and network out of. It's like very complicated. There's all these different categories, all this jargon that is not the most easy to understand or consumer friendly. As someone who is college educated and I feel like I generally have a decent natural understanding of things, I had no idea what out of network benefits was before this. And I think a lot of my friends and just most people don't understand and it's because the healthcare system is kind of weird. Most doctors and other medical professionals take insurance, and it's interesting because a lot of them work at hospitals who've been able to negotiate higher rates on their behalf. And there are reasons why most doctors take insurance. And so it's very normal for you to go to your doctor, give them your insurance card to pay copay, and not ever have to think about billing versus in therapy because a lot of therapists are in private practice. They don't take insurance because they don't necessarily get paid as well by insurance, or they just don't want to deal with the hassle, like the billing, the paperwork in a private practice, that's something that ends up just being put on the client. Like, here's a super bill, you can figure that out. But most clients just have no idea. Like, you've never done this before. You probably don't want to spend the time to go call your insurance company to be like, what are my benefits, help me understand all this jargon and then figure out how to submit it. And then once you submit it, it's like, then what happens? When do I hear back? I have to call them again. Why did it get rejected? The whole system is pretty complicated, and I don't think it's really designed for consumers.

Uriah
That's a good point. So the first challenge is just understanding how out of network benefits work. And then the second challenge is most likely getting a super bill from your therapist and then not knowing either not knowing what to do with it or not wanting to go through the administrative hassle of doing all that yes or.

Christine
Doing it, and then it getting rejected. It's like this code or we need this from you. And then at some point, you just give up. You're just like, this is or never hearing back from insurance. I've heard stories of people being like, it took my insurance a year to get back to me, only to say, like, sorry, it's rejected because of this and code. And for people who obviously are in the space, you understand the billing codes, things like that. Like, people on our team, we can understand it. But as the average person, you're like, I have no idea what any of this stuff means.

Uriah
True. You asked me if I've ever read the insurance, like the contractor, whatever you call it, and I have it filed in my drawer at home. I'm never going to read that until I need a procedure, right? And I need to find out what the details are. I'll tell you recently I have Kaiser insurance. I'm here in Northern California as well. And I went to get an MRI and they said, well, it'll be $350 for your copay. And I said, okay, that's fine. I understand. And then they sent me a letter that said, actually, this procedure is going to be $1,700 because of your deductible. So I'm trying to understand how all these things work, and I know a decent a bit about how insurance and copays work. And then I realized that's a lot of money. And I found out that I could go somewhere locally and go completely out of network and get that procedure for $550. So guess what I did. That doesn't quite illustrate your points there, but it's just a complex system that, like you said, is not built for the consumer and is not easy for most of us, most people.

Christine
Yeah, definitely. And that's something that I think that's why we're a product. We're not just like, oh, we help you take care of this. It's like, let's take the first step. We want to help you even understand what out of network benefits is, if you have them. The general concept. We have an educational component, and that's why we have something called our Benefits calculator, where you can put in your information like name, date of birth, member, ID. We'll immediately tell you in very easy to understand language instead of the typical insurance jargon. Here's your deductible, here's how much you can expect to get reimbursed, et cetera in a way that's immediate and easy to understand. Otherwise you have to go and call your insurance company, be put on hold, get transferred around, only for them to spew out a bunch of jargon at you and you're like, so what exactly does that mean? So that's the first that I think a lot of people love using, especially clients who are like, great, I basically save all this time from not having to even call my insurance company to understand it. And then for therapists, because instead of saying like, hey, my fee is 250, I don't take insurance and give you a super bill, you can figure out what that is, it's kind of on you. You can say, hey, I don't take insurance, but you can use this calculator to see if you have these benefits and Mentaya will take care of all this for you. And that has helped therapists win over so many more private pay clients who might otherwise be on the fence about starting therapy and about their full fee. Just knowing that you can get reimbursed is a huge thing for a lot of people.

Uriah
Knowing is half the battle. So if I was going to give a sales pitch for Mentaya, I would say Menta makes it easy for you to understand your benefits and get reimbursed for out of network services. Is that pretty close?

Christine
Yeah, perfect.

Uriah
I like it. I'm your new marketing director. So the benefits checker is really great. And just for anybody listening, I actually am a new customer of Mentaa. And so I embedded the benefits checker on our website and then I gave that link to well, I showed it to everybody and then I gave it to our intake coordinator. And so now she is just starting literally this week actually, to use that benefits checker when she's talking to people on the phone so she can tell them exactly what their benefits are. And one of the things I love about it, we can't show a visual here because this is an audio podcast, but it does in plain language says this is the fee for services. Here's your deductible and after this number of sessions you will be responsible for X percentage of this fee. It's very clear and you can literally read it and there's even a disclaimer on there that you can read too, which is helpful. I love that.

Christine
Yeah, we've heard. Well, first of all, thank you and very excited for you to I'm very curious to hear how it goes and how many more clients hopefully you get definitely with the benefits calculator. But we have heard a lot of really good feedback from people saying like thank you so much for making this so much easier to understand and not require my client to go and navigate it by themselves. It builds a lot of trust in that. Hey, I'm providing this service that is not just therapy, but also I want to make sure that you're trying to get the best care that you can get with me while also trying to save as much money as possible with your insurance. So I think this has been something that people have absolutely loved.

Uriah
That's great. And then after that, the next implementation of Mentali is figuring out how to help the clients get signed up and start to submit the claims and get reimbursed. That's the next thing we're going to figure out and we're going to sort of test drive it with the clients of one of my therapists and kind of see how that goes, figure out how it works and then move forward from there. But I'm excited about it.

Christine
Yeah, me too. I love hearing feedback as well. So definitely feel free to send us any feedback as you set that up. But it should be pretty simple. I think people are always so surprised by how simple it is to set up because they expect some really like, oh, I have to learn this whole new interface. It's going to be really clunky and whenever people see it, they're like, oh, and that's it, all I have to do is just verify the sessions happen and the claim submitted and it's like, yeah, once it's set up, running itself is pretty simple. There is a setup process you have to put in your MPI and all these things like that. But after that it's pretty easy. So I'm curious to see how it goes for you.

Uriah
Yeah, that's great. I will give some major compliments to your product team or whoever is responsible for your UX user interface design. The whole thing is very clean, it's very intuitive and it really does make the process easier. I love user interfaces. If I was going to have a third career, that's probably what I would do. Graphic design or maybe user interface design, especially when you use a piece of software every single day. It's nice when it's pleasant and that's been my experience so far. And that's not true for all software platforms, even ones that have been around for a while. So good job.

Christine
Thank you. I appreciate that. That's something that is really important to us because the last thing that we want to do is add more work onto therapist plates, right? Like you're all super busy. We don't want to be like, here's this new platform, but it's super clunky and it takes a lot of time to learn and it's super unintuitive. We want it to be like it basically feels like pretty much no work for you because it is so easy. So that's something that we are very intentional about, making it really simple, making it really easy, not overloading with too many different options of like, here's a bajillion different buttons you can click on it's like here's. Clearly though, like one or two or three different things that you can do or click on.

Uriah
And I could be wrong because I have no experience in actually designing software but my understanding is that it's actually kind of challenging to create something that's very useful and has a lot of features or at least the right amount of features but actually looks and operates in that way. That's very intuitive. That must be hard.

Christine
Yes, it's counterintuitive. But you are right because it is so much easier to be like we have all these different options. You want to be feature rich, you want to be like we accommodate all these different ways of doing something because you want to be flexible but you don't want to display it to your customers in a way that is overwhelming and that's something that is actually simplicity is actually really hard. It's the same thing about being concise. Sometimes it's harder to explain something in one sentence than to take five sentences to explain it. So it's very similar.

Uriah
What's that quote? I would have written a shorter letter but I didn't have the time. Yeah, it takes longer to refine it down. Yeah. Would you mind taking a few minutes and just kind of laying out the options for claim submission and how that process works? For reimbursement?

Christine
Yes. In general or with well so I'll.

Uriah
Just give you my use case. Yes, with Mentaya. So when I'm talking to my clinical director this week, I said we're starting to implement this and send the message to her clients to know, tell them what we're doing and kind of get them on boarded with that. And what I'm trying to wrap my mind around is what are the different options for who covers the cost of the claim submission and who initiates the claim submission, those kind of things to figure out which one is the best for us.

Christine
Got it. Okay. Those are really good questions. So I'll start with the cost. By default, we charge the clients, we charge them 5% per claim. So if it's a $200 session, it's 5%. So a $10 cost or price fee per claim for the client and with the 5% fee comes with a guarantee that the claim goes through or we give a full refund of our fees and we never want to be making money for obviously a whole volley prop. Prop is we make it really easy and we make sure the claim goes through. And so we never want to be making money. If, for whatever reason, the insurance company we can't get it to accept, which is extremely rare and usually has to do with they just don't have out of network benefits. And for whatever reason, they thought they did. Or there's some really strange insurance. But in almost all the cases, that's why we offer the guarantee. It comes with that guarantee and assurance that the claim will go through and ultimately the client will be reimbursed or gets applied to their deductible, and they'll eventually be reimbursed with that.

Uriah
So they only pay the 5% when it's reimbursed?

Christine
Well, that's actually a good question. They pay the 5% at the time in which we submit it.

Uriah
Right.

Christine
Some people are like, well, what if I don't get reimbursed? I'm paying the 5% up front. But that's sort of where this guarantee comes in, where we give a refund, which it almost never happens, but if it just whatever doesn't through for whatever reason, I feel like that would give.

Uriah
Me confidence as a consumer. That's good.

Christine
Yeah, it's just like you can always just get a refund. Like it's risk free to try it out. And on average, we get people about it depends on the specific insurance policy. But we've seen around 70%. Like, we've getting people 70% back. So you're like, paying 5% to eventually basically get 70% back on every claim, which is a pretty good deal for most people. And sorry, back to your previous question, which is the client by default pays as a therapist or therapist practice. You can also choose to take on the cost of this fee as well, if you're like. I want to incorporate this into my costs. I'm going to cover the 5% and just tell my clients it's completely free for you. And it's sort of covered in the cost of therapy. That's something that we have as an option as well.

Uriah
So those are the two main options.

Christine
Those are the two main options.

Uriah
Who submits the claim? Is it the client or the practice or how does that work?

Christine
Yeah, so it is the practice that technically submits the claim. And so what submitting a claim means is we just need to know. And the reason why it's the practice or the therapist and not the client is we need to know when the sessions happened. If we have clients submit claims. Not that I would presume ill intent, but you could in theory be like, I went to 100 therapy sessions this week and submit 100 claims. And so we'd need the mental health professional to be the one to actually tell us, hey, yes, we had a session today. This happened, and then we'll automatically submit the claim. And so once the way that it works is as a practice or therapist, you sign up and set up your account. You invite your clients, they set up their account, and that's pretty much it. And on a recurring basis, you just need to let us know, like, a session happened today, and we'll automatically take information from your account, from their account, put it together, and send it to the insurance company in their preferred format.

Uriah
That's great. I like that. I can't even imagine how many super bills we've given out over the years and how few of those have actually been submitted anywhere. And how much money the insurance companies kept that my clients could have gotten back probably so much.

Christine
It is literally oftentimes thousands of dollars a year on the table. And as someone who is personally very much of an optimizer, I'm sure that played into part of why I started a company like this.

Uriah
You're like, wait, this could be better.

Christine
Yeah, it's just like, oh my gosh, there's so much money. That's just not getting reimbursed. That should be because people are like, okay, great, super bill. Yeah, maybe I'll look into it, maybe I won't. And then sometimes you look into it and it's too late. They have limits on how long you have before you can well, you can still file the claim before they're like, it's too late, it's been too long. We're not accepting this anymore.

Uriah
And one thing I like too about mentalia is that for the provider, the provider just pays for the benefits checker, and then they can opt in to pay for the 5% for the claim submission, but by default, that goes to the client. So the actual out of pocket cost for the practice at least the solo practice, is pretty low.

Christine
Yeah. So we actually have the same price for solo and group practices. It's just a $29 a month flat fee across practice. So extra good deal for group practices. And I want to note that that is an optional thing for the I.

Uriah
Was going to ask you that.

Christine
Yeah. So if you want to use the benefits calculator, we charge that $29 a month. But if you're like, I actually don't need it or I don't want it, then you can just use our platform completely for free. As a therapist, submit claims for your client. So that's sort of where the flexibility on if that's helpful for you, use it. If that's not helpful for you, don't. The 5% is per claim. So it's like you can submit one claim and try it out. So it's all very flexible. And we don't try to lock people in or anything. We let the value of the product speak for itself.

Uriah
Benefits checker seems like a no brainer to me, though.

Christine
That's what we generally that's an important.

Uriah
Part of the process, and I want to ask you about that too. I understand how it works, and I've tested it and we're starting to use it, like I said. But on the front end of a potential client's experience, what tips can you give for the therapist or the intake coordinator who is having that conversation with the potential client? Obviously, hey, I can check your benefits if you like and tell you kind of give you a good idea about what to expect. Are there any other tips that you can give beyond that?

Christine
Yeah, so I think that is the main thing, but I think a lot of it also depends on how you word it because I know that a lot of times I've. Heard from a lot of therapists that they hesitate whether they're transitioning out of insurance or not sure if they want to take insurance or not. There's always this I'm sure you get these questions. Like, one of the first questions is, do you take my insurance? And it's always like, no, we don't take insurance, and here's why. And always feeling like you have to sort of justify it, but I think this actually helps in that type of conversation where instead of trying to justify it, being like, oh, but and here's my sliding scale, or whatever because you kind of don't really it feels kind of awkward. Part of what we want to empower therapists with at Menta is to feel confident in charging your full cash rate and feeling like you deserve to be paid your full cash rate and saying, like, look, here's my rate. I don't take insurance. But just because I don't take insurance does not mean you cannot use your insurance benefits. Like, you can still use your benefits if you have out of network benefits to get insurance to cover part of it. And so that kind of reframing almost feels like it's like, okay, well, technically, they don't take insurance, but I can still use my insurance. And I think that's something that creates a mindset shift for clients of, okay, so I can still use my insurance to bring the cost down for therapy for me. And so I think that makes a huge difference in terms of converting more of these private pay clients who might otherwise be like, I can't use my insurance. I'm not sure. Wow, okay, great. This is awesome.

Uriah
Yeah, I definitely agree with that. When somebody asks if you take insurance and you don't, I think it's not a good idea to say just the first thing out of your mouth is no, right? I guess in any sales conversation, that's not a good way to do it. I like saying we're an insurance friendly practice. We don't take insurance, but we're insurance friendly, and I think with a tool like Menta, that can actually be even more true. Right?

Christine
Oh, I like that framing.

Uriah
We can give you a super bill. Oh, that's great. Okay. Anybody can do that. But no, we'll submit the claims for you, and we may or may not cover the 5%, but we're an insurance friendly practice. We'll work with you and your insurance instead of, no, we don't take insurance, but you can pay with a credit card or something like that.

Christine
I think that makes a huge difference because I think sometimes we hear from people, like, I already give my clients a super bill, and that seems fine, but if you actually go talk to and sometimes, to be clear, some clients are totally fine submitting it. They've done their research, spent a bunch of hours looking to it and figured out how to do it, and their insurance is easier, and they don't have to fax these forms and get rejected and mail additional paperwork. So sometimes it can be done for sure by clients. But I think a lot of times therapists don't realize a lot of your clients probably aren't submitting your super bills. They probably don't even know what their out of network benefits are to begin with to even start submitting super bills. And so I think making it feel like, hey, we're taking care of you. We maybe don't accept insurance directly, but we can still help work with it. And with our higher fees comes with this more white glove sort of concierge experience of we'll help take care of everything. Or we work with a different platform to take care of everything so that we take the burden off of you as the client.

Uriah
Yeah, and empowers the clinician and the client as well. If you want to use that phrasing, you can use that for sure.

Christine
I like it.

Uriah
Become an insurance friendly practice with Mentalia. That actually doesn't sound that sounds pretty good. I like it. What was the other thing I wanted to ask you? I was just going to say that I recently considered and wrestled with making a deal with insurance companies and taking insurance just because I'm trying to think about how can we help more people, how can I get more referrals for my clients? And there's just a lot of challenges in the world economically and in other ways. So I'm considering all options, but I really don't want to I don't want to take insurance. And so this is part of my strategy of working with you guys to make that happen and be an insurance friendly practice, but not get all the trade off, the negative trade offs that come along with that.

Christine
Yeah, we've heard that from I mean, I presume obviously most therapists, you're not going into practice being like, I only want to help a subset of the population who can afford my full cash. And so with menta, part of what we're doing, there's a couple of things. We're helping bridge that gap a little bit to make therapy more accessible to people who otherwise may not be able to afford it at your full rate. But also, if you think about it this way, people have sliding scales, right? And if you are able to make a lot more money from your private pay clients, that also gives you and using mentality to use their out of network benefits and basically getting some money from insurance to cover part of it. You could also just open up more spaces for really low income people who maybe don't even have any sort of insurance. And so it just gives you the flexibility to be able to charge whatever you think makes sense for you. Whether it's like I want to charge a certain amount of people at my full cash rate, and then I also want to offer a few limited sliding scale spots at a very low cost to people of certain socioeconomic status who don't even have insurance benefits. And so it just gives you the flexibility to have that option and do that in a way that is sustainable for you and doesn't lock you into this system of having to now build insurance and do all the paperwork and things like that.

Uriah
Yes, 100% agree. So I know people are listening to this and they're thinking, where do I go to sign up? So let's tell them.

Christine
It's super easy. It's Mentaya.com and sign up should take like 30 seconds, a minute. It's super easy to sign up. I'd encourage people to sign up and just give it a try. You can submit. You can try submitting claims. I also know that we have a promo code for you so that you can try our Instant benefits calculator for 30 days for free. So as a therapist, you basically can try out the entire platform for free and see if it works for your practice.

Uriah
No risk. Yeah. Go to Mentaya.com. I'm promoting for you. Go to Mentaya.com and put in promo code productive and get one month free for the benefits sector. Yes, I think it's a great idea. There's other options out there, but in my experience and I've checked out a lot of them, to be honest. And I think yours is one of the best ones. And I like how you're operating and doing things, so that's why I decided to go with you.

Christine
Yeah, well, I really appreciate that, and it's awesome to have your support, for sure.

Uriah
Well, thank you for your time today and for sharing all this. I think you identified a significant problem and a significant opportunity, and you've created something that's a wonderful solution for that. So thank you for all of that. And thanks for being on the podcast as well.

Christine
Thank you so much. It was so fun being on here.