How To Convert More Of Your Ideal Clients ft. Joshua Brummel

Uriah
Hey there! Thanks for joining me on the podcast today. I want to share with you my conversation with Joshua Brummel from Therapy Flow. I really enjoyed this one. We went even longer than usual, but I hope you get a ton of interesting ideas and strategies from this conversation. A little bit about Joshua: He is the co founder of Therapy Flow, which is a Chicago-based company that's helped thousands of mental health practices. Therapy Flow specializes in scaling practices to multi 6 and 7 figure revenues through effective marketing, streamlined sales processes, and flowing operations. Joshua grew his talent in sales and marketing at companies such as the Chicago Tribune and Vector Marketing before venturing into the mental health industry. As an entrepreneur, speaker, and content creator, Joshua loves sharing insight into holistic marketing, achieving high performance through simplicity instead of hustle, and how a value driven sales process can be your secret weapon in business growth. Very smart and interesting guy who is doing some good work with therapists, and I hope you enjoy my conversation with him. Hey, Joshua, welcome to the podcast.

Joshua
Thanks for having me. Glad to be here.

Uriah
Yeah, I'm excited to talk to you about this topic today because I have a sense that it's something that you and I both nerd out about and are passionate about. Is that right?

Joshua
Definitely for sure. Yeah. I think we'll get into some interesting rabbit holes and we'll have to keep ourselves from going too deep on them.

Uriah
Oh, guaranteed. So the topic technically is how to get more yeses from ideal clients. And I'm curious, before we start, why is this so interesting to you? And I'll share my answer too, but I would love to know what you would have to say about that.

Joshua
Yeah. So I think when we're talking about any business, regardless of a private practice business specifically, everyone wants to work with more of their preferred clients. You have your best clients and you have your worst clients, and then you have the people who never become clients. So if we can figure out a way to work with more of the people that we want to work with, then people will receive better results. And so I think on an outcome or impact level, especially if mental health practices can figure this out, it just means more people will see their lives changed because they're more in line with who you can provide life change to. And whether that's for giant practice or solo practice, figuring this out just means more people get value from your service. And that's just fun and healthy.

Uriah
I like that. It's a win-win, right?

Joshua
Yeah.

Uriah
For sure. One thing that I think about is I was reflecting on this earlier because I'm like, Why am I so obsessed about this? Because I love to think about and talk about what I call the client journey. There's tons of names for it, right? But I think I love having the experience as a client or customer or user of really good marketing and good customer service. When I go to Disneyland, that's a pretty solid example, right? Even when I land on a really excellent website that guides me through the buying process and then ends up being a delightful experience. There's just something about that that's really special. I like creating those experiences for the clients in our practice. And for us, one interesting thing is tying the website and the email marketing and the social media posts to their experience of walking in the door.

Joshua
So.

Uriah
For us, the name of my practice is in tuned family counseling. We've got a music theme, right? That's great. And you see it on the website. And we have a lot of references to music and using that as a metaphor. And then when people walk into the waiting room, we've got music playing. We've literally got guitars hanging on the wall and album art on the wall. So it's like, I don't know. I think it creates a a cool experience. It all lines. Yeah, it does. And a lot of our clients are adolescents, too. So for them to walk in and hear some good music and see some interesting things, it's like, oh, this is okay. Maybe this is going to be an all right experience.

Joshua
Yeah. And it matters start to finish. And I think we'll get into this, but there are sections that will matter more or matter sooner than others. But what you just described was some very simple but accurate ways to make someone saying yes easier, as well as brand yourself in a way that a certain type of person would want to say yes, and a certain type of person would want to say no. And I think that's really healthy.

Uriah
Absolutely. So you talk about it like the process of bringing someone from being a stranger to a buyer, or sometimes I say caller to client, whatever that looks like, the buyer's journey, the client's journey. What can you tell people who are listening to this who haven't really thought about that? They have a solo practice or they have a group practice, and they've got their systems in place, but they haven't really intentionally thought about what is it like for potential clients from start to finish? Where should we start?

Joshua
Yeah, that's a great question. And one of the reasons why this came up early on as soon as I started to work with mental health practices was I was running paid advertising, Facebook, Instagram, Google ads. And the nature of that type of introduction to a therapist is very cold. It's a literal stranger. It's not a referral. It's not a doctor's recommendation. It's not an interaction from a community center. It's like random person on the internet landing on your website for the first time, so to speak. And so the need to answer the question, how do I get someone from never having heard of you to saying yes, becomes much more important because there's no trust built, there's no play work there. So I think that's what confronted this when I was trying to help practice owners get results on a marketing level initially. And then from there, it evolved into the needs of the clients in terms of, are they going to get what they need when they go through this experience? And those are some of the topics that I outlined of like, the buyer's journey can actually fulfill people's needs along the way. Because someone saying yes to your service can be a very intimate process and we can facilitate that in a really beautiful way when we do it correctly.

Uriah
I like that. So you're talking about somebody finding a therapist or a therapy practice from maybe a Facebook ad or an Instagram ad or wherever that might be, and then maybe clicking a link and going to that website out of curiosity, probably not because they were looking for that service. And then everybody who does that, who clicks a link from a social media ad, goes to a website and they know within, what would you say, a couple of seconds, right? Whether or not this is interesting, this is right for me, this is a person or a place that I could trust. That is such an important interaction, isn't it?

Joshua
Yeah. And it's one that is hard to do, especially if you don't slow down and think about it.

Uriah
Definitely. So let's talk about the four areas of action that produce buyers. I like this. What's number one?

Joshua
Yeah. So these can go in any order. So regardless of the order we want to go in, I think the easiest one to talk about is money. And that's the one that typically comes up first, whether you are an insurance based practice, a cash practice, or something else in terms of your mix, you don't control your potential client's finances and their reaction to whatever your practice charges are, how you've set that up. And so it feels like you don't have a lot of control in this area to help your buyers spend more money with you per se. But in reality, everyone has money and everyone spends money on different things and on different needs. This was something that was really ingrained into me, maybe in a slightly unhealthy way. My first sales job right out of high school that I ever had was a product sales development. But at the end of the day, it was about value. If a potential client sees the value in relation to their need, if the value exceeds what you're charging, people will say yes more often. So when we do talk about finances, the best way to approach it is saying, are you revealing the value attached to your price? Are you revealing the value attached to your price?

Uriah
And by revealing, you mean communicating or what do you mean by that?

Joshua
Yeah. I mean, for mental health practices, your value is pretty inherent. The amount of years that you spend curating your degrees, your certifications, your continuing education to be able to do, whether it's EMDR or other forms of training for whatever section of clients you're working with, you're probably highly skilled and your practice is highly competent to deliver services. So your value probably isn't in question. You probably have tons of it. So can we reveal it correctly or consistently? Can we reveal it correctly or consistently so people can see it attached back to the price. But specifically, Wow, this value is way larger than the price.

Uriah
That makes a lot of sense because the expertise is assumed if you're searching for a licensed professional or even a pre licensed professional for that matter, but revealing or communicating that value to them so that the price matches, or like you said, I think that was well said, the value exceeds the price is ideal. That makes all the difference in the world. That makes me think about our focus on adolescents and mine in my practice previously when I was seeing clients for the longest time, I was working with adolescents. And anybody who's ever had a teenager, a teenage child would attest to this. When things are hard and your teenager is going through struggles, you will just about do anything or pay anything to get help and to get your problems solved. So people were historically just very willing to pay our private pay fees for that because I was very specific about helping those parents and those families. So that was a good, I guess, value proposition you could say, right?

Joshua
Definitely. I have a two year old right now who's obsessed with Thomas the Tank engines, and there's a set of them that he plays with a small set. And something that I would never spend money on for myself in a lot of different categories, whether it's $100 or $300. But scrolling through Facebook the other day and I'm like, oh, this set's only 100 bucks, or this one's only this. And it's like, yeah, the value proposition of like, when money appears for what you want to make my son happy, I want to give him a good birthday present, I want all these other things. Those same mechanisms are actually coming out on a daily basis inside of your therapy practice. And when we slow down and think about those and saying, Oh, am I helping my potential client attach the results that they want to see in their life to the service I'm planning on providing and make those really obvious and apparent in several different ways, hopefully, but obvious and apparent, that person will be a lot more excited and a lot more willing to say yes to your services and be willing to put in the work afterwards as well.

Uriah
Definitely. That's well said. I want to say one thing about the money aspect, because in my practice, we've been having some challenges with our conversion rates. The percentage of people calling or getting in touch with us to actually become clients has been lower than previously. And a big part of that reason is that people are wanting to prioritizing using their insurance. And I think the reason is because they are being cautious about their expenses and they're thinking, Well, if I can pay my copay over here, that's a lot less than your private pay fee, and we only take one insurance. So one of the things we started doing recently that I'm hoping is going to give us some good results is we are now offering to check people's out of network benefits and give them some information about that so they can make a decision. And even if that only brings in another 10 % or increases our conversion rates by 5 to 10 %, it's definitely worth it. I don't know if you ever talk to your clients about that or the therapist you work with, but we are testing out using meet Nirvana.com. And there's other platforms that are similar to that where you can check benefits pretty quickly and give that to the potential client. So I'm hopeful because it's been a challenge, honestly.

Joshua
Definitely. And every market and state is a little bit different. Cash versus insurance for this buyer's journey, that would be a great example of taking a competent action to reduce buyer friction. Is there something that is keeping your potential client from making the purchase? And can I prehandle that or provide a mechanism that's going to make this easier for them? And so there's a lot of things right now that you're like, Man, all these clients are saying no for this reason, or all these clients are not following up, maybe for this reason. If you see a drop off in any segment of your business or any segment of a client not saying yes, maybe look for a way, just like providing out of network verification and education on that, look for a way to reduce the friction on that category, and you'll get more yeses.

Uriah
I like it. I don't know the answer to this question, but maybe it's obvious. Do you think it makes sense to try to preemptively address objections or wait till they arise?

Joshua
Yeah. I think I've seen this happen in two ways. I think the best way is to prehandle objections after you see them show up consistently. So don't spend too much time or energy trying to think of all the things that a client or a group of clients may or may not say. Your practice grows out of objections, meaning the better you get at the client journey, the less objections you will get to good clients saying yes. But there will be pop up, man, this month, just like you're having this type of objection is consistently keeping someone from saying yes, and that is 100 % worth your energy trying to prehandle it or prefix it.

Uriah
Okay. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. So inserting that into the call script or just into the workflow of the intake coordinator. I like that.

Joshua
A good example would be helping a client get from I've said yes to my first session to actually showing up to my first session for some, for whatever reason, some practices have a huge drop off there, or sometimes from session one to session two. And it's just simply asking the question, what's one thing I could do that would increase the likelihood of someone showing up to their first session? So if they get assigned to a certain therapist, then maybe that therapist just films a 30 second video and says, Hey, this is Sally. We have our session on the calendar next week. So excited to chat with you then. And that just gets emailed over to them, like highly relational. And that's one example of inserting yourself into the process to help the buyer get to the next stage.

Uriah
What you just shared there, that little tip, I guarantee you, 97, 98 % of therapists would never do that. But it's such a good idea. So personalized and would be a genuine surprise. I like that.

Joshua
There's a lot of things like that that you can insert into your customer journey or buyer's journey to help a large percentage of them make it to the next zone or increase that customer experience.

Uriah
I like it. I just have to share this real quick before we move on to the next point because it relates to this, not the point number one necessarily, but this conversation. I was going through a buyer's journey as the buyer of a service, and they offered me, I think, a discount if I made a decision within 48 hours. Classic strategy. But they actually followed up after 48 hours and sent a personalized video that said, Hey, Uriah, just following up to see if you decided if you want to move forward or not. I was like, Wow, that's really nice. I ended up buying. And it was the personalized aspect and the thought and tension that went behind it. I thought, Well, if that's the experience I'm getting on the front end with this company, what will it be like to work with them further? So that convinced me.

Joshua
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And that's looking at a recent purchase, especially a large ticket purchase, especially if you're cash pay. For many of your clients, this is going to be what would be considered a big purchase. So for you and your practice, look at big purchases you've recently made and what's made the difference and go and recreate that in your own business.

Uriah
I like it. So simple but good. Yeah. So number one is money.

Joshua
Number two is... Need. Does the client know that their needs are going to be met? And there's a lot of ways to let your client know that their needs are going to be met. But the number one way that we see, I don't want to say miss the mark, maybe miss the opportunity to be really blunt about this in a professional way is either on that intake call or that consultation call. There should be a moment in the conversation where you clearly and confidently tell the person, Yes, we can help you with the thing that you just called us about, asking if we can help you with. And it should sound like we can help you with the blank, blank, and blank you just told me about because of blank, blank, and blank. Because we have Sally on our team who has 10 years working with ADHD kids between the ages of 12 and 15. Oh, wow. What a relief to hear that. And there's other examples of that. But half the battle is going to be solved by just making sure your intake coordinator, or if you're taking the calls personally, have that moment before you move on and ask them if they want to move on.

Uriah
So in that moment, they likely know they're at a point where they know they have a need, but they're trying to decide if this person or this practice will meet that need. So you're saying, just say it. Say it specifically. I'm glad that you got in touch today because from everything you've told me, it sounds like we can really help you because we have a therapist, exactly what you said, who has the experience that you're looking for that's going to really make a difference for you. It's easy not to say that or not to train your staff to say that. I don't know why, but maybe it just seems too obvious. I don't know.

Joshua
Yeah. And I like three or four months ago, I was resharpening my tool belt on a sales and buyer's journey level. And I was going back through material and I was like, Wow, I used to do this way more succinctly. Why did I start getting sloppy or foggy on this on calls? And so this is one of those things that you actually have to train your staff and train yourself and come back to because it dulls. Doing this dulls like using a knife over time, you have to resharpen this skill specifically because it takes a little bit of confidence and pep and directness. And it requires you to be really in tune, especially if you're doing this live on a call with, did I hear their needs? Can I say it back to them and tell them why we can fulfill that? Or confidently say no, if we can't. If you drive into a tire shop and say, Hey, can you fit tires onto my car? They'll be like, We can't serve your model, or we can serve your model. Any other business in the world does this exchange. And the better you do it, the more confident that potential client will have, or the more confidence they'll have that you can meet their needs.

Uriah
Absolutely. I think the language that we use on our website now, it just says counseling can help. That's attached to some other words. It says something like, families are difficult, or relationships are difficult, therapy can help call us today. Direct call to action. Then if they get on the call and if it is a good fit, in fact, our intake coordinator will say some version of what you said there. And then at that point, they're checking boxes in their mind, right? And they're like, Okay, let's do this. I like that.

Joshua
And there's a couple of quick tips to do this better in other places, like your website, your social media, your psychology today. Those are really important moments to talk in language that your client talks about their need. So your client doesn't always say, I have anxiety. Your client is saying, I'm stressed out about work perpetually. And there's a lot of versions of this. But think about how your clients describe their need versus how the counselor describes their need, especially when solving it. And consistently use that language in your assets before, during, and after they get to the call.

Uriah
Such a good point. Therapists are terrible at speaking normally. We're just so educated and we're so full of acronyms and good scrabble words that we don't know how to say. Definitely. I can help you. That's good. So they need to know that they have a need and then obtain some confirmation that this is the practice that's going to solve that meet that need. Anything else to say about that one?

Joshua
I think it leads perfectly into the next one, though. And we do want to separate these out because you saying that you know their need and you can fulfill their need doesn't mean that they trust that you can follow through on it. And so trust, do they trust that their needs are going to be met, solved, resolved, however you want to put it through this process? So a really important moment in a lot of different sectors is answering the question, why will this process work for you? Why can you trust that you're going to get the result or the resolution you're looking for here? And so we can dig into a couple of ways you can convey that in order to build trust with a potential client.

Uriah
And tell me what you think about this, but it seems to me that establishing trust with potential clients happens at every stage, at every point, whether it's the social media post, the email, the phone call, even the first session, right? Because they're still at every stage, they're still trying to answer that question in their mind. Is this the right place? Is this the right person? Yeah. Okay. Sometimes I try to put myself in the position of, well, in the not too distant or recent past, trying to get my words out there, I have been seeking therapy for my family. And it's been such an interesting experience to be the potential client, reaching out to therapists. And I learned a lot from it that I then, of course, this is how it worked, but turned around and tried to apply to my practice like, oh, we could do this better. But establishing that trust, what are some of the mistakes that therapists make.

Joshua
Unknowingly that.

Uriah
Harm.

Joshua
That? So again, going through the user experience, having lots of family members, business partners, attempt to find counselors and practice owners. One of two things happened. The most common response on any voicemail, I'll get back with you in 28 to 48 hours, those things. And I think I have a unique perspective on this is I think that's doing your practice a disservice because one of two things are going to happen. Either that person wants more immediate care than whatever time frame you give. So by dictating a time frame, you're already both creating and breaking an expectation in a single action. And number two, what happens if you, for whatever reason, can't follow up with them in 24 to 48 hours, which is very typical, especially if you have a wait list and you have a full practice, all these other things. And so you're already giving yourself a massive opportunity to accidentally break trust instead of build trust. So it would be better to describe elements. Hey, if you're looking for additional information before a team can get back with you, check out, insert the next action that client can take. So there's a lot of ways you can formulate that to put that on your side instead of break that trust. But I think that's an area where therapists accidentally break trust with potential clients often.

Uriah
That's an interesting one. And I'm thinking about our outgoing voicemail message right now. It says, we'll get back to you within 24 hours and often much sooner. But your point is well made. And just before we started recording this, I was chatting with a graphic design company on their website, and it literally said, we usually respond in about five minutes. And 20 minutes later, I got a response and I was like, what? You said five minutes.

Joshua
Right.

Uriah
Right. So that's exactly what you're talking about.

Joshua
Yeah. But to do it any longer, hey, I'll get back with you in the next week. Well, that's also not helpful because, man, I want a conversation sooner than... So I think just in today's environment, that is a best practice for most therapists. But unfortunately, I think that will disappear and should disappear as just a language thing and a trust building thing in the next couple of years as people rebuild their intake process around speed and clarity and some other things.

Uriah
And in six months, when people are contacting my practice and they're just talking to my AI chat bot, there will be no lag, there will be no response time error, 24.

Joshua
Hours a day. I'm glad you brought that up because there's, regardless of full AI advancements and other things, most of the practice owners we work with have some automatic messaging sequence or automatic call back sequence as the first step of a response. You get your inquiry from Psychology Today or your website or some of those things, and the system is actually going to send an email, a text message automatically on behalf of your practice or for yourself for that new inquiry. So within the first five minutes, they're at least given some next step before your team can do the full human contact from it.

Uriah
That's good. I'm hoping that people seeking therapy will still want to talk to a human for the foreseeable future. I hope so. I think so. I have a quick question for you before we move on to point 4. Do you have an opinion or a preference on the best method for initial contact? I know there's pros and cons to web forms versus online schedulers versus just a phone call. Do you have any preference on that?

Joshua
Yeah. Unfortunately, we have seen practices successfully do it all. So I don't think I have a blunt preference. The preference is the one that you make work for you. And so I think a lot of practices, they try and do it all. So their call to actions on their website or their booking methodologies are really inconsistent. It would be better for you to go all in on text message or all in on automatic appointment schedule, or all in on phone call consultations than it would be to try and offer four or five different modes of conversation points with potential inquiries. So do one, keep it simple, and figure out how to do it well. And then if it's working flawlessly for you or as best as you can, add in another channel or method if it makes sense from there.

Uriah
That's solid. I agree with you 100 %. And then let's see. So number one is money, number two is need. Number three is trust, and number four is.

Joshua
Timing. yeah. So I think in all of this, you can do your best. You can reveal your value, you can create trust and even guarantee, Oh, man, yeah, we're going to get the results. But if the timing doesn't line up, and there's a million reasons why timing might line up, they aren't going to say yes. And so we have to plan for that. And there's a couple of ways that we can prehandle timing and then post engage with timing. What I mean by prehandle timing, it's prehandling an objection. So before you ever get to asking if they want to move forward, at some point in the conversation, you can ask, Hey, when are you thinking about moving forward? And if they say three months from now, that changes the conversation. But if they say as soon as possible, and then you get to the end of the conversation and they say, Oh, no, I don't want to start quite yet because of blank, you're like, Well, well, you told me as soon as possible, but... And it gives you space to work on that. So that's one example, like, dig into timing before it becomes a problem.

Uriah
That's an interesting question. I never thought about putting that in that conversation. When are you thinking about starting therapy? I like that. Yeah.

Joshua
There's a couple of ways to ask that, whether it's on your forms or in your intakes or other places. You can also put this in different places on why you should start therapy. So you could have a thread on your social media like, why you should start therapy before the holidays, or why you should continue therapy through the summer. Because there's all these segments of drop offs where people's timing changes. So if we can preempt that, we'll have more people complete the buyer's journey. If we can give them a reasonable reason to trust that they should take action now or continue with services through a season so they don't drop off for the summer travel or disengage for the winter holidays.

Uriah
That's so potentially helpful because I think a lot of people who need therapy or who are looking for therapy are also very ambivalent about it. In other words, if they can maybe avoid seeing a therapist, they would like to find another solution.

Joshua
And on a timing level, one of my favorite things that we've done for the last two years is at about October, mid October, so a full month before, like full holiday, ANCST is set in. We recommend that most of our practices have some communication, announcement, chat in sessions with anyone that's in session about, Hey, the holidays are coming up. We want to support you through this process, and then have a conversation about what the holidays typically do to that person, whether they need more support or less support during that season. Most people actually need more support, but it will bring in the decision at a correct time when they can make it, rather than three days before Thanksgiving. Oh, man, everyone's disappearing for the next four weeks due to the holiday stress and such. So that's like, do we hit someone at the correct time to help them make the decision about the next couple of months.

Uriah
Of care? Definitely. I'm sure there's a ton of points we could hit on the timing aspect, but one thing that occurred to me, because this conversation, I'm enjoying this, by the way, it's bringing up a lot of good thoughts and also memories of things that we used to do that we should do again. Because back in the day when it was just me in a solo practice, when I was talking to a parent on the phone and they had a teenager who was struggling in some way, if it wasn't a good time, whether it was money or their teenager was unwilling or some other reason, I would almost always say, Well, it sounds like it's not going to happen now, and that's okay. But if you want to stay in touch and get some support, I have this weekly parenting email that goes out. It's a newsletter. Would you like to be on my email list, essentially? And they would always say yes because we had a good conversation. They're not going to become a client now. I put them on the email list and guess what? So many times, you know what I'm going to say? They become a client six months, two years, three years down the road because we've been staying in touch because I'm doing email marketing. So we should go back to doing that. I'm just telling myself that right now.

Joshua
No, for sure. And that's something we talk about a lot. There's one step further for the back end of timing. That person says no on the call in the way you just described. But it could be finances. It could be that vacation that's coming up. It could be that I need to talk to my husband, or I need to check with my insurance benefits, whatever it is. Something kept them from saying yes today or this week. You should put some mechanism in place to keep them top of mind. A lot of practices we find don't keep what we call the list. Storing your list of all your potential marketing inquiries from any source in a hyper compliant way that you can follow up with, right? Whether that's weekly emails. One of my favorite is reactivation campaigns. So quarterly or annually, you just send out text and email sequence saying, Hey, we have some availability for X, Y, and Z. There's a bunch of ways you can structure what we call a re offer. But lots and lots of our therapists, they've had 20 inquiries in the last three months only, but they still get four new clients, or they've had 300 inquiries in the last three months, and they get 20, 30 new clients because the timing just lines up, or you waited long enough for the trust to build up in other ways.

Uriah
I would guess that that's a very...

Joshua
Underutilized.

Uriah
...Strategy. Yeah.

Joshua
If you want one big take away as a practice owner, just go reactivate your list today. Just put together an email or put together a text message and just send, Hey, we have a couple available slots. Are you still looking for mental health services in the next month? Follow up. And you'll be shocked. You'll be shocked at how many people will be like, Oh, yeah, let's have.

Uriah
A conversation. That's a good point. And one of the things that we do well is when someone reaches out and we make three attempts, we generally do three attempts. I think you might have recommended more than that on one of your accounts. But if we never connect with them, we'll mark them in our referral log, and then periodically, we'll go back and just reach out to them again. Hey, I just wanted to see if you found what you're looking for just as a courtesy. And sometimes it's yes. And sometimes it's like, Oh, my gosh. I never got connected with a therapist. Thank you so much. Let's talk. So I like that. And that's.

Joshua
One of those things that helps more people complete the buyer's journey. If you're in need of clients, if you have a pretty empty practice or you have a bunch of clinicians to fill out and such, doing more touches, I'd highly recommend. But if you're almost at capacity and you're just trying to keep up with the volume you're currently getting, you got to hit and got to touch the most recent people coming in.

Uriah
That's a good point because if you're needing more clients, then yeah, do more follow up. If not, you don't want to.

Joshua
Right. No, you don't. Oh, actually, we have a wait list. Sorry, I followed up with you. Okay. Oh, no. Yeah. So I.

Uriah
Want to mention one of the things that we have to offer folks that can be helpful. And then I would love to hear what you have to offer because I know you do. Therapy intake Pro is our program that provides training and support for practices intake coordinators. It's been around for three years now. It's really good. And we talk about some of the things that we're talking about on this podcast episode and more all about helping practices convert more college to clients. And when you support your intake coordinator with the skills and the abilities and the coaching and the mentorship that they need, it will help you grow your practice. Simple as that, right?

Joshua
Yeah. So I'll put a link to that in the show notes. And I just want to say to that point, training your intake coordinator, your staff to do this is one of the best investments you're going to make into your practice as you grow larger. Because as I said at the beginning, it's one of the most intimate stages. When you're 3, 5, 20 sessions in with a client and they're working on some heavy deep stuff, that's vulnerable and intimate. But that therapist has established tons of trust to get to that point. When you're asking someone to confront their fears about finances, to reveal their needs and to trust you enough to say, Yes, I'm going to pull the trigger and spend money on this and deal with paperwork and an administrative headache and all these other things, there's a very intimate interaction that a greatly trained staff through a program like yours is going to be the best outcome that you can...

Uriah
...Hope for. Absolutely. We like to think that it's the queen bee role. If anybody's ever read Michael McAuliffe book, Clockwork, one of the most important roles in the business that actually leads to growth.

Joshua
I think so.

Uriah
Definitely. So tell the audience about what you have to offer. I would love to have you share that.

Joshua
Yeah, great question. So for a little over five years, I've been working with therapists, and then most recently, our program, our flagship program through therapy flow, whether you're solo or your group practice helps you with this full buyer's journey. Some elements like intake coordinator and other things can appear to that, but a lot of it is how do we start more conversations and generate more conversations? So we're talking paid advertising, good marketing, other forms in that fashion to help you scale, and then even some recruitment mechanisms. So we have a very intimate program that we call a Done With You program. So we have four to five coaches at any point, and then Google ad specialists, and Facebook and Instagram specialists, sales specialists that will actually show you, teach you, build for you the different components for your practice so you can implement it. We're pretty, right now, especially marketing heavy because most of our practices are in growth mode, like, hey, how do I turn on a flow of clients? So for someone who's like, man, could they be a good fit for therapy flow? If you're struggling to get more ideal clients from your marketing before you even get them on the phone to say yes, that would be a great starting point for working with us and our team to help you build those mechanisms out.

Uriah
I love that so much because you focus on the whole spectrum of the buyer's journey and helping practices really dial in all aspects of that. That's so cool.

Joshua
We might have....

Uriah
...To do a collaboration of some sort at some point. For sure. It'd be fun. I think so. Yeah, for sure. Where do people go to find out more about that?

Joshua
Yeah, so you can go to mytherapyflow.com. That's our main website. We'll share a lot of details about our programs, what it actually covers, and some of those things. And then ultimately, you'd probably book a call or with someone else on my team through that site. We also have a Facebook group where we go live a couple of times a week. You're coming in it in a couple of weeks here. So that will be fun to have that collaboration. And yeah, that's a great place to ask questions and see some of our initial content as well.

Uriah
That's great. I have to say I don't always like names that have therapy or therapy in them, but I like therapy flow. I think it's just a really... Those are nice words that go together.

Joshua
I won't share them because I'm a little embarrassed by them. But we were called something else for a little while, like in several iterations as I was trying to figure out our own branding in the therapy space. I was happy when this one settled and popped out one day and I was like, oh, that's great. That aligns with what I'm hoping to accomplish with therapist is I want your buyer's journey to flow. I want your practice growth to flow. I want whatever it needs to be smooth and simple and therefore be easy.

Uriah
Finding a good name is hard. I was recently poking fun at TheraNest because there's got to be a story there. But I'm like, why the Nest? Maybe there's a bird analogy. I don't know. It's too confusing.

Joshua
This does deal with buyer's journey. You can spend a lot of time on the name, and sometimes I think that it's a red herring. A name is only ever so important, especially when you first get started. But your name and what you call things and how you title things can be a really effective starting point. So even if you're doing weekly talk therapy, right? Does your program or your process have a name to it that describes the outcome the person is going to have? So there are ways that you can actually encapsulate a name around your whole business, but also your programs and your elements that will make your communication of what you do and if you can fulfill their need really succinct and clear.

Uriah
So hard to find a good name, but it's important. But even better to provide a good service and a good experience for your potential clients and your clients. Great. Well, thank you so much for your time. I really enjoyed this conversation. I know this is a longer podcast episode, but I know people are going to get a ton of value out of it. So thank you. Thank you.

Joshua
Yeah. Well, Uriah, thanks for having me.

Uriah

Absolutely! I'm sure we'll chat soon.